Tarot certification pushes a lot of buttons. This morning on Facebook, I posted a link to my new
Tarot for Writers certification program.
Almost immediately, I heard from
Zach Wong, the creator of the Revelations Tarot. We visited about the issues surrounding tarot certification, and he gave me permission to post our conversation here, too.
As you read it, remember that it was just a friendly online chat, and I've cut and pasted it with very little editing. Still, I think we covered a lot of ground in just a few minutes!
Zach: stupid question time. why do people want to be certified tarot writers?
Corrine: Hi, Zach! They want a structure for their work. And they want a certificate of accomplishment. Or achievement. And they want someone to whom they can be accountable ... Like me!
Zach: ha! in my brief history as an "author" of a tarot deck i've received requests from people who review my deck and they say they need to do x-amount of deck reviews and it has to engage the author/creator (ie. interview) i'm baffled as to who out there measures these people's "Reviewing ability"
Corrine: No one! That's why there are so many oddball reviews! LOL!
You know, though, you could offer a certification program for your deck! James Wanless does that with Voyager, of course.
Zach: which brings me to the lead on question - is there an association of tarot writers which would monitor these rogue un certified writers? :):)
Corrine: Yes. I'll be the official Tarot for Writers police. LOL! No, seriously, people are very proud when they complete a course and get certified.
Zach: well i'm all for people feeling good about themselves, but it still baffles me that they need to externalise it.
Corrine: For someone who reads with your deck professionally, your certification would be a badge of honor and a marketing tool.
Zach: frankly., if anyone dares to use my deck, they are in for a ride anyways. i'll be more than happy to certify them clinically insane, or at least questionable :D:D
Corrine: You should definitely consider it. Not only does it help the people you certify, it's a good ongoing way to publicize and promote your own work.
Zach: well i'm of a different school of thought when it comes to my deck. 1) it was never meant to be a public work, so if some one identifies with it, kudos to them. 2) i have never actively gone out and pushed the marketing machine for it, because it's such a personal piece of work. the last thing I want are the masses to get a hold of it.
Corrine: Ohhh ... You're a one-man secret society!
Zach: i tried to be for many years, till they found me
Corrine: Heh heh heh.
Zach: i didn't even want to write the book for the companion kit :/:/
segway question -when i studied architecture, they were very precious with the term "Architect" because they didn't want "builders" or "interior designers" to just use the term, so they for societies for architects, where you have to be registered and do a "Certification" so you are allowed to use the title "architect" now these societies are not governed by the .. government - ie. there's no law.
if you're tarot writer certification is doing this - is there a bigger banner for "tarot readers"? and will this alienate others form the craft?
Corrine: Oh, there are ongoing controversies here about tarot certification. I usually hear it compared to social work certification. Some are concerned that it will draw government interference. Others are more frequently worried that it will denigrate tarot readers who aren't certified. A few people get up in arms when they think that someone will get rich from certification fees. Some insist that tarot reading is too subjective to be certifiable.
Zach: so you're familiar with the repercussions and possible politics involved - will certifying tarot writing do the same?
Corrine: Sure. I think it might be too big a task to certify "tarot readers" in general. But I think it's perfectly valid to certify people within one system of tarot. Just like James Wanless has done. I've never heard a word of criticism about how he certifies Voyager readers.
Zach: probably because they all love him to bits in the first place
Corrine: Since this is my system, based on my book, I think the parameters are clear. I might have a few kinks to work out as it develops, of course.
Zach: ahh i think that's what i'm missing
Corrine: How do you mean?
Zach: you see it's based on your book, but the title sounds more encompassing of "Writing" as a profession
Corrine: Yes. It's all being channeled through the Tarot for Writers website and group, so it's closely linked to the book. But you're hitting on the same reason that no one can certify a "journalist" or a "reporter."
Zach: well then it's a case of punctuation for me
Corrine: You think I should put it in quotes? That would look weird.
Zach: "Tarot for Writers" Certification. i know ... it does look weird
Corrine: It makes it look sarcastic!
Zach: italics perhaps?
Corrine: I think italics may be the way to go. And if a rogue group of tarot writers does spring up unsupervised or unpoliced, more power to them.
Zach: well if you have a following like Wanless for Voyager, then it should be a great program.
Corrine: That's my dream!
Zach
stupid question time
why do people want to be certified tarot writers?
11:10amCorrine
Hi, Zach.
They want a structure for their work.
11:10amZach
good morning!
11:10amCorrine
And they want a certificate of accomplishment.
Or achievement.
And they want someone to whom they can be accountable.
Like me!
11:11amZach
ha!
in my brief history as an "author" of a tarot deck
i've received requests from people who review my deck
and they say they need to do x-amount of deck reviews and it has to
engage the author/creator (ie. interview)
i'm baffled as to who out there measures these people's "Reviewing
ability"
11:12amCorrine
No one!
That's why there are so many oddball reviews! LOL!
You know, though, you could offer a certification program for your
deck!
James Wanless does that with Voyager, of course.
11:13amZach
which brings me to the lead on question - is there an association of tarot
writers which would monitor these rogue un certified writers? :):)
11:14amCorrine
Yes. I'll be the official Tarot for Writers police. LOL!
No, seriously, people are very proud when they complete a course and
get certified.
11:14amZach
well i'm all for people feeling good about themselves, but it still baffles me
that they need to externalise it.
11:15amCorrine
For someone who reads with your deck professionally, your certification
would be a badge of honor and a marketing tool.
11:15amZach
frankly., if anyone dares to use my deck, they are in for a ride anyways
i'll be more than happy to certify them clinically insane, or at least
questionable :D:D
11:16amCorrine
You should definitely consider it. Not only does it help the people you
certify, it's a good ongoing way to publicize and promote your own
work.
11:17amZach
well i'm of a different school of thought when it comes to my deck
1) it was never meant to be a public work, so if some one identifies with
it, kudos to them
2) i have never actively gone out and pushed the marketing machine for
it, because it's such a personal piece of work. the last thing I want are the
masses to get a hold of it.
11:18amCorrine
Ohhh ... You're a one-man secret society!
11:18amZach
i tried to be for many years, till they found me
11:18amCorrine
Heh heh heh.
11:19amZach
i didn;t even want to write the book for the companion kit :/:/
11:19amCorrine
Your questions are good! Can I post this on my blog?
11:19amZach
sure
11:19amCorrine
Cool! Thanks!
11:19amZach
drop my name if you like :):)
11:20amCorrine
I will. And I'll link to your website so you attract even more followers.
Bwahahaha!
11:20amZach
you have too much time on your idle hands.
actually can i segway you to another related question?
11:21amCorrine
Yes. A husband, four kids, our own software business, three books
underway, a jewelry sideline, too many websites to count, and a dog.
Sure.
11:21amZach
get rid of the dog (i'm a cat person)
11:21amCorrine
No! Not our little Buddy!
11:21amZach
okay, the ugliest child then?
11:21amCorrine
We'll have to draw straws.
11:22amZach
make them all short.
segway question -
when i studies architecture, they were very precious with the term
"Architect"
because they didn;t want "builders" or "interior designers" to just use the
term, so they for societies for architects, where you have to be registered
and do a "Certification"
so you are allowed to use the title "architect"
now these societies are not governed by the .. government - ie. there's no
law
if you're tarot writer certification is doing this - is there a bigger banner
for "tarot readers"? and will this alienate others formt he carft?
11:24amCorrine
Oh, there are ongoing controversies here about tarot certification.
I usually hear it compared to social work certification.
Some are concerned that it will draw government interference.
Others are more frequently worried that it will denigrate tarot readers
who aren't certified.
A few people get up in arms when they think that someone will get rich
from certification fees.
11:26amZach
so you're familiar with the reprecussions and possible politics involved -
will certifying tarot writing do the same?
11:26amCorrine
Some insist that tarot reading is too subjective to be certifiable.
Sure.
I think it is too big a task to certify "tarot readers" in general.
But I think it's perfectly valid to certify people within one system of tarot.
Just like James Wanless has done.
I've never heard a word of criticism about how he certifies Voyager
readers.
11:27amZach
probably because they all love him to bits in the first place
11:27amCorrine
Since this is my system, based on my book, I think the parameters are
clear.
I might have a few kinks to work out as it develops, of course.
11:28amZach
ahh i think that's what i'm missing
11:28amCorrine
How do you mean?
11:28amZach
you see it's based on your book, but the title sounds more encompassing
of "Writing" as a profession
11:28amCorrine
Yes. It's all being channeled through the Tarot for Writers website and
group, so it's closely linked to the book.
But you're hitting on the same reason that no one can certify a "journalist"
or a "reporter."
11:29amZach
well then it's a case of punctuation for me
11:29amCorrine
You think I should put it in quotes?
That would look weird.
11:30amZach
"Tarot for Writers" Certification - would read better to me
i know ... it does look weird
11:30amCorrine
It makes it look sarcastic!
11:30amZach
italics perhaps?
11:30amCorrine
LOL
Maybe ...
I'll do some informal polling of our members.
Market research!
11:30amZach
'Tarot for "Writers" Certification' looks sarcastic ;);)
11:31amCorrine
I do think it's going to be a great program, though.
11:32amZach
see, fi you put single/double qutoes, id' never even ask the first question.
11:32amCorrine
It probably wasn't as clear as it could be, because the Facebook link
didn't make it obvious that it was all coming from the Tarot for Writers
website.
I think Italics may be the way to go.
11:33amZach
it does, but you know it's grey and all.
11:33amCorrine
And if a rogue group of tarot writers does spring up unsupervised or
unpoliced, more power to them.
11:33amZach
well if you have a following like Wanless for Voyager, then it should be a
great program.
11:34amCorrine
That's my dream!
11:34amZach
oh! i have a 3rd question
11:34amCorrine
Okay.
11:34amZach
do all creators who write their companion books get an honourary
certification? bats eyelashes
11:35amCorrine
Wait! I thought you didn't understand the need!
Actually, hold on. I'm not sure I have a copy of your companion book.
11:35amZach
i don't, but i've already done the wrok, i may as well get a free piece fo
paper :):)
11:35amCorrine
If I don't, you may have to submit it for review!
11:36amZach
i'll ask the aeclectc forums for some one who has a spare aying around to
send it to you :P:P
i'm sure there are still some disappointed buyers out there who still have
the deck/book/kit :):)
11:36amCorrine
You know what? If you put your TfW certificate on your website, of
course I'll send you one!
I think I have it. Hold on while I check?
11:37amZach
lol i'm not serious!
11:37amCorrine
Argh. My tarot bookshelf is such a mess.
No, I'll seriously send it to you if you want. The certificate is electronic,
so it will look like a personalized copy of the Tarot for Writers cover.
Just a little gif file.
11:39amZach
I'll pass at this stage - but if you need "numbers" sure ;);)
11:39amCorrine
Okay. I'm still waiting to see how it all shakes out.
What city are you in, btw?
11:39amZach
melbourne, australia.
11:40amCorrine
Isn't it the middle of the night there?
11:40amZach
2.40 am, i'm a night owl, it helps with my translucent tan.
11:40amCorrine
Happy Tuesday! It's almost noon on Monday here in Minneapolis.
11:41amZach
yea, my publisher is in MN
11:41amCorrine
I used to work for Llewellyn as an editor. It's how I got into tarot.
11:41amZach
ahhh
11:41amCorrine
Sometimes I swing by their office to visit with Carl and the rest of the
crew.
It's about 20 minutes from my house. Maybe 15. All freeway, so it's an
easy drive.
11:42amZach
i've only dealt with barbara, lary K, chandra and some of the art dept.
11:42amCorrine
Sure. They're all very nice, in person or by email.
11:42amZach
well yes, what else would they be? US Games? :):)
11:43amCorrine
I only quit working there because I met my (now) husband, and he asked
me to do marketing and communications for his software company.
Did you approach US Games, too?
They're also very nice, believe it or not. They published my Epicurean
Tarot ... which made Llewellyn want me as a writer, not just a staffer!
11:43amZach
yeah i got a rejection letter and then a request to include in their
encyclopedia ..
11:43amCorrine
Well, that's something, I guess.
11:44amZach
strange small industry
11:44amCorrine
Well, I should run.
I have to get a Pendulet ready to send to Australia!
I have to figure out the best shipping method.
11:45amZach
alright, later and thanks for letting me pick your brain.
11:45amCorrine
Which do you prefer for packages from the US?
US mail or Fedex?
Or UPS?
11:45amZach
we have fedex here
and ups
so it'll be part of an existing network
11:45amCorrine
They seem so much more expensive than US Mail, though ... which I
think is pretty reliable.
It's not like sending packages to South America, where they "disappear."
11:46amZach
yeah ... in the end you have to find out if your product loss outweighs
your sending cost.
11:46amCorrine
As far as I know, standard Australian mail gets to the US just fine, too. I
buy stuff from Australia fairly often on ebay.
11:46amZach
that you will never find out till over a year or so
11:47amCorrine
Sigh. There's just so much we have to know to do business!
Okay, well, I'll talk to you later!
11:47amZach
alrighty.
11:47amCorrine
I'll put some of this on my blog, too. Thanks!
